Skyrim talk:Malkoran

Frost Spell

The frost spell is deadly at lvl 40 as well 167.161.101.101 14:43, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Malkoran's deadly frost spell

Also, too, I had 25% magic resist from Breton and 54% magic resist from items, plus the 50% elemental resist on the shield (although I don't recall if I had the shield raised when he killed me - I definitely did the next time)so his frost spell is very potent. 167.161.101.101 15:08, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

If this happened with the 1.2 patch installed, the deadliness may well be due to the bug introduced by the patch that causes resistances to be bypassed. --188.203.162.222 15:22, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

This is completely dependent on the person. If you had only invested in health every level up and with items had say 400+ health it is not deadly at all. If you still have 100 health and loads of magicka im sure it is very deadly. Still does not belong on the information, information would be he uses high level destruction spells. Not that he kills you in one hit--Lord.Baal 05:05, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

I encountered him at lvl15 with 130M 160H 160S. After potting up and making sundry preparations scores of dozens of times, I suggest his potency is combined from the Frost trail that slows you horribly and probably lowers resists, and the killer is actually a Bolt so it has a huge physical dmg component that ignores all your magic/elemental resists. hahaha on you sez he. I'll revisit him when I'm more Conan-ly. I had hit on the idea of bringing an army to bear, but found the Ritual Stone power doesn't work on the corpses scattered about, nor on the ashpiles of his corrupted minions. — Unsigned comment by 184.100.40.226 (talk) at 15:28 on 15 February 2012

I Can't Put My Arms Down!!!

I thralled Malkoran but Meridia wouldn't transport him out of the temple and he was stuck in the room he died in. I was able to get him by walking near the locked door and waiting but now his hands are always drawn in a fighting stance no matter how many times I kill and rethrall him. Does anyone know some sort of trick to get him out of this or a way to do the mission that would avoid it? I've done the mission over and over and it's the exact same everytime. Will Malkoran ever find his own way out of the temple and join my party or do I have to go het him? I fast travelled all over the place and my follower and other thrall would always show up, but not Malk. I haven't seen anything on these pages about having to go back in to get him so how did the people who use him as a thrall get him after leaving the temple? It's a minor thing but its very annoying and I really like Malk for my Necro because of his shade. Any tips? (xbox) 108.28.34.65 19:31, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

You can get Malkoran to follow you out of the temple, but there is a trick to it. Kill Malkoran then raise him before you grab dawnbreaker. When Meridia teleports you outside, look for the pillars with the beams you lit up earlier, you should be able to see the ones on the outside of the temple. You can find a way to climb to that balcony area. Go back into the area where Malkoran is, be aware that the door to his room is locked, but you don't need to go inside that room. Just get close to that door to make him aware of you, this step may not be necessary. Go back outside and he should now be with you. The thing is, I don't think that his corpse is permanent. If you stop using him as a thrall, his corpse will disappear. Malkoran appears to be stuck in combat for you, it can happen with any thrall or follower, not just Malkoran. If you have the Wabbajack, you could try using it on him until he changes into a mudcrab or something else, that might take him out of combat when he changes back. --Berserkenstein 02:48, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

"Can't proceed if killed by Conjuration spell"?

What, exactly, do you mean by this, 119.246.245.18? Elaborate a little and I'd be happy to amend the article as necessary. Is the bug you encountered perhaps the one described in the entries above? Tom Swiftie 01:04, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Double face bug when Malkoran dies

When he "dies" on the ground he has a double face bug (just remember Oblivion follower bug? ;)): you can see [1] auburn beard and hair over another nord face...

[2]

And about the Note: "As powerful as Malkoran may be, his shade seems bugged; it will not move through the doorway to his main chamber." is an incorrect assumption IMHO since in the Creation Kit it has the flag "Persistence: KilkreathRuinsLocation" and after all his powers come from the Meridia sword, so it's coherent with the source of his powers...

Hexaae 16:10, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

After 1 year, I've found what causes this random bug and I've finally fixed it. The patch will appear in next Unofficial Skyrim Patch 1.3.3+

Hexaae (talk) 23:05, 22 June 2013 (GMT)

Malkoran's Shade page?

I noticed that the stats for Malkoran's Shade are nowhere to be found on the site, searching for an article simply redirects to the Undead page and there's absolutely nothing there, it's not even mentioned. I've been wondering exactly how powerful it is, which spells it has, as well as infos on factions as part of something for the Dead Thrall spell - no point reanimating him if the Shade only attacks you. Elakyn (talk) 19:58, 24 February 2013 (GMT)

I believe the data should be included on this page; it can be made into something similar to Skyrim:Queen Potema. The redirect page Skyrim:Malkoran's Shade should be redirected to this page, not the Undead page. Thoughts, people? ~ Psylocke 13:29, 1 September 2013 (GMT)

It could be done one of two ways- either have the info on this page as you suggested, or have its own separate page. I don't see any issue with it being on this page, but it definitely shouldn't redirect to the Undead page. — ABCface^◥ 04:26, 2 September 2013 (GMT)

I agree info on his shade should be here. --Xyzzy ^Talk 13:39, 3 September 2013 (GMT)

Big trouble on Malkoran

You have to have an arrow I bring Lydia with me. So if u use a bow n arrow poison the arrows to kill him. — Unsigned comment by 50.121.205.131 (talk) at 20:51 on 20 March 2013

This is another one of the many times that having even Level 1 of Slow Time can save your butt. Malkoran may survive one poisoned arrow, but he isn't going to survive three, or a couple of bolts from an enchanted Dawnguard crossbow, my favorite in situations like these. 174.6.51.17 17:41, 10 July 2013 (GMT)

Where does his level range come from?

In the article, it says that his level can be one of the following values: 7, 14, 21, 30 or 40. However, when I checked his entry in the CK, it seems that the leveled list he uses is LCharWarlockBossNecroMaleCondescending, which generates actors of levels 1, 6, 12, 19, 27, 36 and 46. Now, based on the CK's entry on Leveled Characters, the entry in the list is chosen by means of the level of the Encounter Zone and the difficulty tag that is associated with that particular object's reference. In this case, the Encounter Zone min level for Kilkreath Ruins is 24, and the difficulty level of Malkoran is Very Hard. This should mean that the game chooses the item in the list that is closer to 1.25 times the resolved level of the space, without exceeding it. In the case of your character being level 24 or lower, the level of the space is 24 (the minimum level of the Encounter Zone). This should amount to level 30 when multiplying by 1.25, which is exactly the level that Malkoran is when you find him in-game under those circumstances. However, if you follow the leveled list that he would presumably be based on when attending to the CK, he should be level 27 instead, since that is the item in the list with a level closest to the one computed for that particular actor's reference.

In short, I don't understand why the level values are those mentioned in the article (and found in-game), but not those that the CK seems to suggest. Also, ¿is it possible for the level 7, 14 and 21 versions of Malkoran to appear in-game? -- Skaidan (talk) 11:46, 21 April 2020 (GMT)

The levels 1-46 in the leveled list are not the creature levels, but are the lookup key. The list creates EncWarlockNecro0xBossBretonM with x ranging from 2-6. Those creatures (after chasing down another template) have the documented levels found on this page. The page doesn't try to figure out which of the versions you will actually encounter in the zone. A quick test with a low level character shows that it is indeed the level 30 version that is encountered minimum - not sure why now.

Update: Did some more tests. Summoning (player.placatme 9cb66) him in Whiterun his level behaves exactly like the leveled list predicts staying at 7 till level 18, then jumping to 14 at player level 19. But visiting him in the Kilkreath Ruins with a character that hasn't loaded that cell already (player.moveto 29d87), he is level 30 up to player level 28, and from player level 29 on the level 40 version will be encountered - can't explain that right now. --Alfwyn (talk) 15:50, 21 April 2020 (GMT)

I assumed the levels of the entries found on leveled lists would correspond to those of the NPCs they reference, but in this case they don't. You are right, thanks.

As far as why the level 30 version is the minimum encountered, I actually don't know. Malkoran's reference in the CK is set to Very Hard. The information on Leveled Characters found in [3] states the following about Very Hard: Select the actor that is closest to 125% of the resolved level of the space without exceeding that level. The resolved level of the space is, in fact, the resolved level for the encounter zone in which the actor is found. In this case, the zone is KilkreathRuinsZone, which has a minimum level of 24 and no max level. I just tested it, and Malkoran will be level 30 when the player character first enters Kilkreath Ruins at levels 1-28. As soon as the player character reaches level 29, Malkoran will be at his max level of 40. The change in Malkoran's level from 30 to 40 makes sense if we omit the without exceeding that level part, since the level of KilkreathRuinsZone will be equal to the player character's one as soon as this reaches level 24 (the minimum for the zone). At level 29, the computed value is 36.25 (29 x 1.25), which is higher than 36 and, thus, results in the game choosing the level 46 item in the list, which corresponds to the level 40 version of Malkoran.

Now, there is another piece of info to consider, extracted from the same site: If this would produce the same result as the Hard difficulty creature, select the enemy one step higher, if any, regardless of its level. Looking at the cells related to KilkreathRuinsZone: KilreathRuins01, KilkreathRuins02 and KilkreathRuins03, one can see that there are no other leveled characters to be found. And, even if there were, they would have to use the same leveled list as Malkoran for the select the enemy one step higher part to be applied. This means that there is something wrong in the info from the CK website. I suspect that it is the description of Very Hard leveled characters. More specifically, this part: without exceeding that level. What actually happens, is that the game selects the first actor in the list that exceeds the computed value of Encounter Zone Level x 1.25.

In short, Malkoran will be level 30 for those characters whose level is between 1 and 28, and level 40 for 29+. I don't know if this is worth adding, but I think it holds true. If anyone has any extra info on the subject, please tell me.

Also, I'm just seeing the testing you've done. Indeed, you can find Malkoran at lower levels when you spawn him in cells that are either not related to any Encounter Zone at all, or related to one that has a low minimum level. --Skaidan (talk) 16:54, 21 April 2020 (GMT)

Yes, something about the description of "very hard" references doesn't line up. I guess it would need testing with more than just one example to find out what exactly that is. --Alfwyn (talk) 07:57, 22 April 2020 (GMT)

The description makes sense. From the provided evidence, it functions not quite as described though, it seems to round UP fractions as follows:

Creature.Very_Hard:= (Select from The_List with level closest to [TRUNC(125% Resolved Zone Level)+1] but not more)

Creature.Hard:= (Select from The_List with level closest to [TRUNC(100% Resolved Zone Level)+1] but not more)

If Creature.Hard is NOT last in The_List then If Creature.Very_Hard = Creature.Hard then (Creature.Very_Hard)):= (Select from list Next from Creature.Hard)

Malkoran is Very Hard and can be Levels 7 14 21 30 40

At Player_Level below 24 the limits are 24+1=25 Hard and 125%*24+1 = 30+1 = 31, So Levels selected for Malkoran are Hard 21 and Very Hard 30, and they are different, so finally 30 is selected for Very Hard.

At Player_Level 28 the limits are 28+1=29 Hard and 125%*28+1 = 35+1 = 36, So Levels selected for Malkoran are Hard 21 and Very Hard 30, and they are different, so finally 30 is selected for Very Hard.

At Player_Level 29 the limits are 29+1=30 Hard and TRUNC(125%*29)+1 = 35+1 = 36, So Levels selected for Malkoran are Hard 30 and Very Hard 30, and they are the same, so level next to 30, which is 40 is selected for Very Hard.

Sergio Morozov (talk) 18:09, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

The problem that I see with your explanation is that your calculations are not based on any leveled list. You are using the values 7, 14, 21, 30 and 40 as your list values, but those are the NPC levels, not the values in the leveled list. The actual values in the leveled list that Malkoran uses, which is LCharWarlockBossNecroMaleCondescending, are 1, 6, 12, 19, 27, 36 and 46. Maybe I'm not really understanding what you mean, though. --Skaidan (talk) 01:10, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Okay, I was confused, sorry about that. Let me try again!

Malkoran's List has associated levels (ASL):__ 01 06 12 19 27 36 46

Malkoran's List has Actors with levels (AL):___ 07 07 07 14 21 30 40

So, let's consider the calculations if the game is rounding or truncating the calculations with Round(x) or Trunc(x):

If the creature is chosen based on Associated Level, then Player Level 28 should produce Hard As.Level 28->27, VHard As.Level 35->27 , Are Equal, +1 Step VHard As.Level 36 -> Level 30 Malkoran

If the creature is chosen based on Actor Level, then PL 28 should produce Hard 28->21, VHard 35->30 , Are NOT Equal -> Level 30 Malkoran

If the creature is chosen based on ASL, then PL 29 should produce Hard ASL 29->27, VHard ASL 35,25->27 , Are Equal, +1 Step VHard ASL 36 -> Level 30 Malkoran

If the creature is chosen based on AL, then PL 29 should produce Hard AL 29->21, VHard AL 35,25->30 , Are NOT Equal -> Level 30 Malkoran

Now, let's consider the calculations if the game is rounding UP the calculations with TRUNC(x)+1:

If the creature is chosen based on ASL, then PL 28 should produce Hard ASL 29->27, VHard ASL 37->36 , Are NOT Equal, VHard ASL 36 -> Level 30 Malkoran

If the creature is chosen based on AL, then PL 28 should produce Hard AL 29->21, VHard AL 37->30 , Are NOT Equal -> Level 30 Malkoran

If the creature is chosen based on ASL, then PL 29 should produce Hard ASL 30->27, VHard ASL 37->36 , Are NOT Equal, VHard ASL 36 -> Level 30 Malkoran

If the creature is chosen based on AL, then PL 29 should produce Hard AL 30->30, VHard AL 37->30 , Are Equal, +1 Step -> Level 40 Malkoran

So, it seems that "Very Hard: Select the actor that is closest to 125% of the resolved level of the space without exceeding that level. If this would produce the same result as the Hard difficulty creature, select the enemy one step higher, if any, regardless of its level." selects by Actor level, which are 7,7,7,14,21,30,40 in this case AND the calculations for [125% x Resolved level] is actually [TRUNC(1,25 x RL) + 1]

I have bolded the variants which correspond to the evidence of testing you've provided. Now, the mystery is, why is there the ASL value, if it is not actually used?

Sergio Morozov (talk) 12:00, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

So, let's change the ASL to the following: 01 06 12 19 27 37 46 (so, 37 instead of the original 36).

And leave the AL as it is originally set, so: 07 07 07 14 21 30 40.

Now, if the formula is what you say: [TRUNC(1,25 x RL) + 1]

If the creature is chosen based on ASL, then PL 29 should produce Hard AL 30->27, VHard AL 37->37, Are NOT Equal -> Level 30 Malkoran

If the creature is chosen based on AL, then PL 29 should produce Hard AL 30->30, VHard AL 37->30, Are Equal, +1 Step -> Level 40 Malkoran

If the creature is chosen based on ASL, then PL 30 should produce Hard AL 31->27, VHard AL 39->37, Are NOT Equal -> Level 30 Malkoran

If the creature is chosen based on AL, then PL 30 should produce Hard AL 31->30, VHard AL 39->30, Are Equal, +1 Step -> Level 40 Malkoran

Then, I changed the ASL to: 01 06 12 19 27 40 46 (so, 40 instead of the original 36). Same AL, same formula as before.

If the creature is chosen based on ASL, then PL 31 should produce Hard AL 32->27, VHard AL 39->27, Are Equal, +1 Step -> Level 30 Malkoran

If the creature is chosen based on AL, then PL 31 should produce Hard AL 32->30, VHard AL 39->30, Are Equal, +1 Step -> Level 40 Malkoran

If the creature is chosen based on ASL, then PL 32 should produce Hard AL 33->27, VHard AL 41->40, Are NOT Equal -> Level 30 Malkoran

If the creature is chosen based on AL, then PL 32 should produce Hard AL 33->30, VHard AL 41->40, Are NOT Equal -> Level 40 Malkoran

When tested, the sentences in bold prove to be incorrect. This is what happened:

For ASL with level 37 change:

PL 29 -> Level 30 Malkoran

PL 30 -> Level 40 Malkoran

For ASL with level 40 change:

PL 31 -> Level 30 Malkoran

PL 32 -> Level 40 Malkoran

So, as you can see, some of the times the ASL prediction is false, and others it is the AL one. In the level 40 ASL version of my testing, PL 32 * 1.25 = exactly 40, yet the game chooses the level 40 Malkoran. This would make sense for your AL theory, but doesn't hold for PL 31, for which Malkoran's level would also be 40, but is instead 30.

My guess about how it works, is that you multiply the Resolved Level (which, in all this testing, is equal to the PL) by 1.25. Then, you choose the item in the list (ASL) that has a level strictly higher than the computed value. In any case, I don't think your formula of TRUNC(1.25 x RL) + 1 is correct.

And my head is about to explode. --Skaidan (talk) 20:47, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Wait, wait, do not explode!

Up in here, Alfwyn said:

But visiting him in the Kilkreath Ruins with a character that hasn't loaded that cell already (player.moveto 29d87), he is level 30 up to player level 28, and from player level 29 on the level 40 version will be encountered.

See, Malkoran is level 40 at PL 29! The first bolded sentence is correct! Just as I have forseen! Mwhahaha! And, to be serious, I was just trying to guess what formula is used, in no case do I insist on it or whatever =D

Sergio Morozov (talk) 03:23, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Do you mean your first bolded sentence or mine? Because, if you mean mine, mine was tested with the change in ASL from level 36 to 37, a change that wasn't present in Alfwyn's test. --Skaidan (talk) 11:08, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Trying to get Malkoran in his level 40 version as a Thrall and I'm terribly confused

At first I thought I simply need to reach the level mentioned here in the discussions before entering his temple for the first time in order to get him to Level 40, but in one of the bigger Dead thrall discussions found online it's stated that all NPC's with a radiant level have a random possibilty of being at a higher level. No matter at which character level I try or how many times I reload he's always level 30, the only thing that seems to change between reloads is his loot. The location of the beacon after accepting the quest at the statue is also always the same after reloading, it's only different between different characters.

So my question is, is the chance for the level 40 version just really low,is it determined at the start of a new game or is it determined at the same time that the location of Meridias beacon is determined and if so, is that after character creation, after leaving Helgen dungeon, after reaching the appropriate level or after whatever other point I'm missing? Or is there something fancy going on with Malkoran on the Switch version that makes it impossible to get his level 40 version to spawn?(Testing his level by using dread zombie each time)

Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask but I only started playing two months ago and no matter how I try to research I can't find a definitive answer online. — Unsigned comment by 93.206.29.207 (talk) at 14:02 on 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Malkoran's Shade has guaranteed Bone Meal and 250 Gold

Malkoran's Shade, which is hostile after killing Malkoran, even as a thrall, has a fixed loot of a Bone Meal and 250 Gold. Due0covid21 (talk) 14:11, 19 January 2024 (UTC)